16 May 2007 @ 06:46 pm
KakaSaku, oh the impossibility of it all~  
Uncut, but if ya'll complain I will edit.

It's a little weird when people pair Kakashi off with someone. The yaoi fans will pair him off with Iruka. Ugh (Note: I am not against yaoi. In fact, my OTP is SasuNaru, which might as well be canon. I just think Kakashi is the straightest straight guy ever). And the "het" fans seem to have taken to pairing him up with Sakura. So:

Do you like this pairing just because you like Kakashi? Or, do you actually think this would work in the manga?

Long, long ago, I tried to write an actual KakaSaku story called "Another Wolf." I think it was when KakaSaku wasn't as big of a fandom as it is today, but I wrote it because I liked Kakashi, and Sakura was in that deliciously angsty teenage woe-is-me-men-just-don't-understand phase (this was before the time jump where she turned into an actually respectable character). But it just didn't work after a few chapters. Why? Because it was just so completely and utterly improbable.

Of course, fanfiction is a genre of impossibilities and quite uncanon-like characterizations, but Kakashi is Kakashi. He is the most perfectly beautiful and insensitively compassionate jerk there ever was; I couldn't make him act a certain way in a story just because I wanted him to. I love Kakashi. I can't bear to turn him into anything other than what he already is.

Here's the funny part: I can't stand reading KakaSaku. It is utterly hyprocritical of me. I know. I've written more than 1 or 2 KakaSaku stories. Everytime I read about him falling in love with Sakura, I think, "What?! Kakashi would never act/talk/move like that!"

Wait, scratch that. I have read one KakaSaku that was completely and wonderfully believable, Somewhere There. But that's it. Believe me, I've read, or at least tried to read, all of the "famous" KakaSaku stories on ff.net. Just couldn't do it.

Me: Kakashi would never fall in love with Sakura. In fact, he's probably not the type to fall in love with anyone, much less a significantly younger girl. Kakashi is distant, ambiguous, and, above all else, honorable. He would never be in a real relationship with Sakura because it would be dishonorable. He's not the type to do something for his own selfish needs. But if he were to do something selfish, it would be at the expense of his own self, not at the risk of hurting another.

Which is why when I attempt to write this pairing, it is always *angst.* He would hate himself for touching her, or even thinking about touching her. It would kill him to do so. Actually, I like to think about Kakashi just losing it and taking it out on Sakura (who is half thrilled and half scared out of her wits). And then I like to think of him wanting to cut off his own hands for acting on his impulses. I don't think Kakashi would really ever want Sakura as anything more than an outlet for all of his bottled up emotions. And Sakura, having been unable to ever save Naruto or Sasuke, would let him use her for all she was worth, just to know that she was able to save *someone.*

That's just me.

So.. agree? disagree? WTF, KAKSAKU IS LIKE FOREVA TRUE LUV!!! Or whatever. This comm needs some discussion once in a while, no?

EDIT Wow! I'm amazed at the response this has gotten. I've definitely enjoyed reading everyone's personal insight into this pairing. Thank you!
 
 
Current Mood: contemplativecontemplative
 
 
 
( 59 comments — Leave a comment )
Jeycensorcensor on May 17th, 2007 12:07 am (UTC)
I agree with you. Kakashi would probably rather sit himself down in a nice corner chair and read all day than have to deal with a relationship (because you can't have a relationship without something 'troublesome'.)

But, at the same time, KakaSaku is my OTP. I think the crack-ness of the whole thing attracts some - dare I say many - of this pairing's fans. I, for one, wouldn't love this pairing as much if it became canon.

And so many emotions can be pulled with Kakashi x Sakura. This is probably the main reason why I like this pairing so much. You can have an angst-fest, humor (it seems to just follows Kakashi everywhere xD), even fluff... and it's just fun to watch Kakashi's and Sakura's personas clash :3.
Larkspurlark_spur on May 17th, 2007 03:07 am (UTC)
And so many emotions can be pulled with Kakashi x Sakura.

*Nods. I agree. I think it's easy for us to relate to Sakura's feelings: her uncertainty, insecurities, disappointments. I guess it's these emotions that pull us toward the pairing.
michiru42michiru42 on May 17th, 2007 12:22 am (UTC)
Totally agree, and that's the fun of fandom!

Hell, I'm currently reading a NejiSakura and a HidanKakuzu both of which I'm loving, and those pairings could not make any less sense if they tried.
Larkspurlark_spur on May 17th, 2007 03:08 am (UTC)
Haha, crack pairings are awesome.
star_sanstar_san on May 17th, 2007 12:41 am (UTC)
Your idea of the kakasaku relationship makes me want to write a story featuring that. Oh can I? Can I please? But, you are right, it's an incredibly improbable pairing, and I love it anyway. Oh well...
Larkspurlark_spur on May 17th, 2007 03:09 am (UTC)
Of course you can!! I'll probably end up writing something akin to the above scenario, too. Actually, I think I already have. -.-
Bloody Raindarkrequiemsong on May 17th, 2007 01:02 am (UTC)
Hmmm...
I would either agree or disagree to your earlier post. It depends on what the character, in this case: Kakashi, is thinking, and those thoughts like you said can lead to different actions. In short, I really think that it would be possible for hime to have a relationship with Sakura in the manga/anime because Sakura is maturing into a decent woman, not very 'ladylike' but still. So she can put up with the crap that Kakashi might happen to decide to pull out of his ass. And he on the other hand relies on her sometimes, it seems for company, someone just to 'see' to make sure the world's human population hasn't died off yet. He's more than just what you said of him, true he is honorable to the extent of where he would feel inconsiderable guilt of thinking 'dirty' thoughts towards someone that happened to be one of his students, but somewhere deep down he DOES have some reliance towards Sakura Haruno, a little bit more than that of a regular friend, not lovers, just friends but that could change if situations, and time(and Mishimoto allowed it)were to persuade it to do so. Btw, Sakura will always be a bull-headed chica at heart, just the way the girl is, and Kakashi is an indifferent, honorable, yet cold bastard who knows and shows the truest levels of loyalty of shinobi...he's still a bastard in hiw own way though, and probably always will be. This doesn't change the fact though that there IS a possiblity for a relationship to occur whether it be a strong friendship, or 'companionship' it could happen.
Larkspurlark_spur on May 17th, 2007 03:14 am (UTC)
Re: Hmmm...
He's more than just what you said of him, true he is honorable to the extent of where he would feel inconsiderable guilt of thinking 'dirty' thoughts towards someone that happened to be one of his students, but somewhere deep down he DOES have some reliance towards Sakura Haruno, a little bit more than that of a regular friend, not lovers, just friends but that could change if situations, and time(and Mishimoto allowed it)were to persuade it to do so.

Hmm.. I agree with the first part. I think Kakashi and Sakura do have their own unique relationship, one that stems from his reliance on her (and how could he not rely on her with Naruto and Sasuke to deal with), but I don't think Mishimoto would ever go past that. There has never been a hint of anything romantic between Kakashi and Sakura, only affection. Companionship is definitely possible, in fact, I think it's already there. I think that if it weren't for Sakura, Kakashi would be a lot more cynical.
Samantha: Silly Sasuke. :3a_twisted_vine on May 17th, 2007 01:08 am (UTC)
Hm... I'm rather new to the Naruto fandom. I fell in love with Kakashi right away, and when looking for fanfiction, I was persauded by the SessRin-loving in me that Kakashi needed a younger, former student because I'm mentally messed up that way. xD

The point of fanfiction - generally - is to take the canon characters and make them do something they normally wouldn't. This is what starts the fic. I'm not saying fanfics make the characters OOC, don't take it that way.

KakaSaku has little to no canon base at all (this makes it more fun, no?). I accept this. And in my opinion, I can see Kakashi staying a loner or hooking up with someone. I usually just choose the later because its more interesting. =P

Basically there was no point at all to this comment, but I hope you got something from it. XD
Larkspurlark_spur on May 17th, 2007 03:15 am (UTC)
LOL.

KakaSaku has little to no canon base at all (this makes it more fun, no?).

That's the gist of it, I guess!
serenanna: Kakashi-in-a-Boxserenanna on May 17th, 2007 01:08 am (UTC)
I'm posting this in two parts since LJ is being mean:

I am up to this challenge, partially because, whether you realize it or not, you're right, but not for the right reasons.

I had this explained to me by a friend who, aside from hating Naruto in general for bastardizing ninja legends, couldn't understand why I liked KakaSaku. Canonally, if the culture of the Naruto world is the same as Japanese culture, Kakashi would rather cut off his own hands than touch Sakura. He is, or was, her sensei, and once a sensei, always a sensei. Not only would ruin him but it would ruin her, and they'd pretty much be ostrasized by society. Sensei's are entrusted to teach the old and the young like any other teacher. Just like in the US when a teacher seduces a student, it's taboo. That's the appeal of it supposed the taboo nature of a forbidden love.

So there, that's the reality of it. In Naruto canon, KakaSaku would never happen.

But then again, this isn't canon, it's fanfiction, even if writers like me stick as close to the rules of canon as possible. So, in that aspect, the best we can do is theorize based on a character's past actions. So, that said, how do we know that Kakashi is, as you say, honorable, distant and ambigous? What has he done in canon to support these things? Ok, well, obviously enough avoids answering personal questions. In his introduction to Team 7, all he mentions is that he has alot of hobbies. Sounds amibigous to me.

Next we learn that he has the Sharingan, then that he was in ANBU, and that he's pretty damned famous as the copy nin. As I theorized in a post on the Narutofan forums, everyone outside of the eleven genin and of importance in the series are connected to him personally or by reputation, except for Iruka and Tsunade. Kabuto knew him, Orochimaru knew him, Itachi and Kisame knew him, Jiraiya knows him, he was trained by the Fourth, worked under the Third, and is seen socializing with all the other Jounin teachers. Even miniscule sized roles like the anonyomous purple-haired ANBU lady knew him, and knew about Obito too . . . doesn't sound like he's bottling up too much to me and being a recluse. Somewhat aloof and cool, maybe, but distant? Not in my opinion.

Now, the honorable question. Is Kakashi honorable? My opinion? Somewhat, but . . . he's still a shinobi. There are times for honor in one's personal life, and times for not. He's already proven that he would do anything for Konoha, like every other shinobi, thus duty before honor. (can't believe I just wrote that . . .)

Would that extend to his personal life?

That's a question for fanfiction. It's a realm of possiblity that's only as believeable as the person writing it and as much as the reader wants to believe it's possible. As much as we love these characters, and stick by our concept of them in our heads, someone is always going to see it differently, which is fine. No one ever has the exact same perception of other people. We each take away something different, internalize it, and form an opinion of what we saw.

In all my takes of writing, I try to stick to canon, but I also try to humanize and rationalize. People will above all act like people, whether influenced by family, culture, gender, mental instability, past trama, or past experience. We fall in love, we fall out of love, we watch our loved ones die, and we hold on for some piece of the world.

. . . Continued
Larkspurlark_spur on May 17th, 2007 03:25 am (UTC)
That's the appeal of it supposed the taboo nature of a forbidden love.

Yes, taboo relationships do have a certain appeal, which explains the reason why people would be drawn to KakaSaku.

As I theorized in a post on the Narutofan forums, everyone outside of the eleven genin and of importance in the series are connected to him personally or by reputation, except for Iruka and Tsunade. Kabuto knew him, Orochimaru knew him, Itachi and Kisame knew him, Jiraiya knows him, he was trained by the Fourth, worked under the Third, and is seen socializing with all the other Jounin teachers. Even miniscule sized roles like the anonyomous purple-haired ANBU lady knew him, and knew about Obito too . . . doesn't sound like he's bottling up too much to me and being a recluse. Somewhat aloof and cool, maybe, but distant? Not in my opinion.

I will have to disagree with you on this one. Yes, many people do know Kakashi. THey know "of" him. They know he has Sharingan, they know who his master was, they know what happened to Obitio. But they don't know any of this (as yet to be proven) through Kakashi himself. This is a ninka village, meaning that they are all soldiers. So of course people know about Kakashi's abilities, as he is an important asset to the community. And yes, he does "socialize." But here's the important line: "Everyone I've ever cared about is already dead." Meaning: if there was anyone he has truly cared about and been close to, they are no longer around. I never said Kakashi is a recluse. I said he is *distant.* While he does care for people, like his students, he doesn't get too close to anyone, due to his personality and/or past experiences. The only time we have ever seen Kakashi be completely frank is with Obito at the memorial.

He's already proven that he would do anything for Konoha, like every other shinobi, thus duty before honor.

That's subjective, I think. Fulfilling his duty as a ninja is honorable, no? Let's define being honorable as "doing the right thing." Isn't that what Kakashi does?
(no subject) - serenanna on May 17th, 2007 03:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
serenanna: Kakashi-in-a-Boxserenanna on May 17th, 2007 01:09 am (UTC)
Now, do I think KakaSaku would ever work, in my own perception if the culture of Naruto was different? Yes, and here's how.

First off, age Sakura. This then makes her into a malliable enough character for her to actually mature in an attractive sense. Maturity is a wonderful thing since adults can be as serious or funny as they want and still be intelligent, determined, responsible, and dramatic without the overwrought angst. A mature Sakura can have any number of histories.

Second, age Kakashi. It's only fair after all. Mid thirties and upwards to weird things to men, like giving them bald spots and mid-life crisis, maybe even the need to settle down.

But then why Sakura? Aside from the obvious answer of why not, lets first look at the other contestants, starting Kakashi's age range. Kurenai is out since she's taken my Asuma and having his baby. Anko could work, but she seems too loud for him. Tsunade? Too old, and has her own past relationship issues. Shizune? Seems too preoccupied watching over Tsunade. Purple-haired ANBU lady? Maybe, but she doesn't even have a name.

In Sakura's age range, there's Hinata . . . who is canonally gaga over Naruto. Ino? Maybe, but she's like Sakura in someways from her current attitude, only seeming less skilled and more girly. Only fanfic I've read that could make it believeable was Gossip by J-pop Princess, and that's predominantly smut. Tenten? What do we know canonally about Tenten anyway?

Ok, so back to Sakura, why her? Number one reason, we've all seen her the most and thus know her the best. All character debate aside, she is the one that has grown the most in maturity of attitude since the beginning of the series to past the timeskip. Less bark and more bite to her personality, knowing what she can and can't so, doing her best, and knowing the stakes. Debate it as you wish, but you all know it's true. If she continued on this rate of growth, she'd be a capable woman as early as twenty.

This brings up reason number two, that ability wise, she is able to keep up with the rest of the team now. Maybe not as uber powered up by the boys, Sakura has managed to show keen intellect with less drama and some power including the insane strenght, a miniature-Tsunade. I wouldn't be surprised if she did summon slugs eventually. What she lacks, and Kakashi has plenty of, is battle experiance.

Now the third reason, they're both similar. No, I haven't gone off the deep end, just go with me here. Battle intellegence aside, they've both been shown to have a fine quality that people often over look, common sense. Notice during the chunin exam both of them talked alot and had similar opinions on what they saw. In Wave Country, both of them noticed the poverty of the area first, and Sakura sense dispensed some candy to a few kids while Kakashi showed similar compassion to a dying Zabuza. Like attracts like most of the time. (I don't believe too much in opposites attract.)

So there, my opinion. If they were to have a relationship, it might actually work, in fanfiction at least.

Sere
Awesome- compared to bullshit.: kakashidualityane_s_thesia on May 17th, 2007 01:34 am (UTC)
I'd like to add a fourth reason to your list, if I may. ^_^

They're bound by the tragedy of Team Seven. All four of them, and no matter what happens in the future, that piece of history will never really fade. I'd like to think that the three remaining members will always be apart of one another's lives after all they've been through (even more so if Sasuke and/or Naruto ends up dying).

I'd like to elaborate more on the idea, but I'm pretty incapable of doing anything beside beating it into the ground right now. ^_^; (Long day at work, brain is pretty fried!)
(no subject) - ane_s_thesia on May 17th, 2007 02:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - serenanna on May 17th, 2007 02:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ane_s_thesia on May 17th, 2007 02:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lark_spur on May 17th, 2007 03:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - serenanna on May 17th, 2007 04:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
tootalltygerliltootalltygerlil on May 17th, 2007 01:17 am (UTC)
I think that's why fans are so drawn to this pairing...because of the fact that it's so improbable.

I was first intrigued by this pairing from a Sasuke/Naruto fanfic that I read over a year ago. And in that fic, Kakashi and Sakura were not a pairing but just had excellent rapport with each other. My mind went..WHOA! What if they were put together as a couple. So for a few weeks, my mind stewed over the idea and it kept getting me more and more interested in wanting to read about it. So I started searching and came across FF.net and LiveJournal. I read a few stories when I stumbled on fics by SilverShine, Ronsmyhero and leafygirl and my obsession took off from there. And I've been loving the pairing ever since.

I think it's funny, I can read Sakura with just about anybody (except Sasuke, for some reason that pairing makes me gag), but if Kakashi is with anyone other than Sakura...I can't stomach it. I can read him in a yaoi pairing with Iruka or Genma, but I have to be in the mood for it to work.

Go figure, huh?
Awesome- compared to bullshit.: ankoane_s_thesia on May 17th, 2007 01:44 am (UTC)
Kaka/Saku, Ita/Saku, Naru/Saku, Sasu/Saku, Gen/Saku, Kiba/Saku, Yama/Saku Kabu/Saku, Konohamaru/Saku... (I kid on that last one ^_~ Or DO I?!).

Heh heh. Yeah, Sakura is such a village bicycle, ne? XD She's the only person I can read about if the story is a pairing fic. Otherwise, I just can't get as interested. Weird stuff. (I even wrote an Ino/Sasuke once as a gift. Was three chapters long and I still don't like it.)

(Though, I have read Anko+Kakashi angst before, which wasn't too bad...)
(no subject) - lark_spur on May 17th, 2007 03:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - paigey_kun on May 17th, 2007 03:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lark_spur on May 17th, 2007 04:03 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - paigey_kun on May 17th, 2007 04:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - tootalltygerlil on May 17th, 2007 12:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ane_s_thesia on May 17th, 2007 04:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mandy138 on May 17th, 2007 06:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ane_s_thesia on May 17th, 2007 06:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
a.: kakashilovenothingwasleft on May 17th, 2007 01:26 am (UTC)
i am a pretty big KakaSaku fan, but i totally understand where you're coming from. becuase, seriously, i you think abou it... it would never logically happen.

(that doesn't mean i'll stop reading it though!)
Larkspurlark_spur on May 17th, 2007 03:38 am (UTC)
Hehe, I like your laidback attittude about it. I think I would obsess over KakaSaku if I didn't have such a strong idea of who Kakashi is in my head.
?nephrite on May 17th, 2007 01:42 am (UTC)
Is it ironic that your "Another Wolf" fanfic was what turned me into a KakaSaku fan....?









LOL!! I read it our of sheer curiosity towards the idea of them being romantically linked. I love that fanfic and I've read it at least seven or eight times.. Bless you for writing it. :)

Some of this may be totally off-the-wall considering that my memory's a little foggy from not reading Naruto in a while, but here goes!
I agree with your thoughts on KakaIru (bleh), but then I have to disagree with your argument that KakaSaku would never work out.

I find their relationship with each other quite endearing. Kakashi is the most patient with Sakura compared to how he is with the rest of Team 7 -- granted, that she is also the least irksome (most of the time). He (usually) listens to everything she has to say, and puts a lot of trust in her. They both bicker (actually, it's one-sided bickering on Sakura's part..) due to their clashing personalities (ex: one's punctual, the other is consistently late. one has a short temper, the other couldn't care less.. etc), but then at the same time, they rely on each other. Their bond with one another runs deeper than simply a student and teacher bond -- not to say that it is romantic or sexual in any way -- because they have a mutual, unspoken understanding of one another.

I like to think that Sakura has again and again broken the mold of what Kakashi thinks of her. Initially, he was put off by her immature and girlish Sasuke-worship, but then was surprised by her fierce loyalty to her team. He underestimated her abilities, only to be proved wrong when she demonstrated excellent chakra control -- as opposed to Naruto and Sasuke who were falling over themselves in attempt to beat each other. He is well-aware of how intelligent and clever she is, but doesn't take into account her potential for learning and growth -- which he may or may not regret considering that she sought out another teacher (Tsunade) who would actually give her the time of day.
Sakura was formerly weak-willed, childish, and whiny, but emerges as fierce, independent, and capable in part II. Kakashi realizes how immense her power has grown when she and Naruto team up to fight him, and he acknowledges that she will most likely become a great ninja that Tsunade -- an immense honor to even consider, and what makes it more significant is that it was the skeptical Kakashi who thought it.
Although she is still young, she can be considered and trusted as a dependable adult, which puts her and Kakashi on a closer level with one another from before, as opposed to when she was immature and petty, and when he was wary and exasperated.

I don't mean those points of analysis to be "evidence" of some kind of romance, because they aren't.

Rather, it shows that they are compatible people. Compatible friends.

What draws me into the pairing is the potential of it.



That was a lot longer than I intended. I hope it contained some iota of logic, rather than incessant fangirl delusions. :)
Larkspurlark_spur on May 17th, 2007 03:43 am (UTC)
Oh, wow. I really enjoyed reading your thoughts about this. I especially liked your argument about Sakura constantly breaking the mold of what Kakashi thinks of her. That could, I think, disprove my entire argument O.O Maybe she could even surprise him into feeling attraction towards her.


I don't mean those points of analysis to be "evidence" of some kind of romance, because they aren't.

Rather, it shows that they are compatible people. Compatible friends.

What draws me into the pairing is the potential of it.


I wholeheartedly agree. But wheneever I think of potential, I think of the potential for doom! That's just my problem I guess...

Is it ironic that your "Another Wolf" fanfic was what turned me into a KakaSaku fan....?

Stop it. My face is all hot and red now.
I wrote that so long ago it's actually embarrassing.
(Deleted comment)
Awesome- compared to bullshit.ane_s_thesia on May 17th, 2007 02:29 am (UTC)
Totally off-topic...
Ya know, I'd never heard the term 'v-card' before today, and this was the SECOND time now. o.o Weird!
(no subject) - lark_spur on May 17th, 2007 03:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rashaka on May 20th, 2007 04:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
When everything's made to be broken,paigey_kun on May 17th, 2007 01:55 am (UTC)
In real life im positive it would never work.

But my friends dad is 20 years older than her mom.
So whats the diffrence than? Well like most said 'once a sensei,always a sensei' and i agree with that.
But what if shes graduated(like a jounin[sp?])and matured(like 20-30yrs old) it could possibly happen.

But im not gettin my hopes up ;]
Larkspurlark_spur on May 17th, 2007 03:47 am (UTC)
Same reason as above,^^

I'm surprised at the number of people agreeing with me, though.
I thought I would get flamed for sure.
(no subject) - paigey_kun on May 17th, 2007 03:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - serenanna on May 17th, 2007 04:19 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - paigey_kun on May 17th, 2007 04:21 am (UTC) (Expand)
Awesome- compared to bullshit.: kakashihermitane_s_thesia on May 17th, 2007 02:18 am (UTC)
Firstly, YAY FOR 'ANOTHER WOLF'! I love that story, I really do. :D It's probably the only Kakashi/Sakura I can read where Sakura is still a minor that doesn't just squick the holy hell outta me.

Actually, I like to think about Kakashi just losing it and taking it out on Sakura (who is half thrilled and half scared out of her wits). And then I like to think of him wanting to cut off his own hands for acting on his impulses. I don't think Kakashi would really ever want Sakura as anything more than an outlet for all of his bottled up emotions. And Sakura, having been unable to ever save Naruto or Sasuke, would let him use her for all she was worth, just to know that she was able to save *someone.*

Someone write this. NOW.

By the way you describe him, I'm thinking you should read 'Fated' by Leafygirl (if you haven't already?). That's pretty much the way she wrote him, aside from some (small amounts) of fluff thrown in here and there (I'm pretty sure Leafy didn't want to kill all her readers considering the shear amount of angst that fic produced. o.O Filled my quota for at least a week after finishing it!)

Anyway, to answer your question (to the best of my abilities beside just saying, "BECAUSE!")--

Draaama. Drama drama drama drama! And ANGST! Aside from Sakura running off to wed Itachi (can we choose an even more improbable pairing?!), there is no more dramatic affair than Hatake Kakashi and Haruno Sakura. Lolita complex + teacher/student = rivers upon rivers of angsty, delicious drama.

And as long as it's written in a believable way (to me), the characterization can vary from story to story and not bother me. ^_^

Though, like I said above, I am turned off if the story revolves around Sakura being under 18. I'm not 100% sure why it effects me that way. It could be because I'm subconsciously being influenced by societal taboo, or maybe by my own personal experiences? Or perhaps it's because I just don't see Kakashi ever -everevereverever- pursuing her below the 'legal' age. Unless it involves exactly what I quoted you saying above. But then that's gotta be the angstiest of the angst, and it probably doesn't end well, either.

(Just a thought) One of the things I found most realistic about the ever-popular ronsmyhero's 'His Fault', was the catalyst. (I didn't really like the ending so much, but it was still a nice fic) I could totally see Kakashi just not even batting an eye at older Sakura until someone (in that case Shiranui Genma) pointed something out- something so minute or maybe a detail he just never truly saw -and then it all blowing up from there. You watch someone grow up from a child to a woman (as an adult the entire time)- you don't see SEE what people on the outside see. And when you do see it from that view, your world starts to crumble. That nice, innocent, protected view just DIES in your hands. XD I loved that characterization for him.

I'm wondering now if anyone's written a real mid-life-crisis!Kakashi fic? It might be a bit OOC to put him in that vulnerable kind of situation, but I could see it being a pretty good comedy. -.o

I'm gonna cut off this inane rambling with one more thought: I don't think there is any other man in Konoha who can just, pure and simple, corrupt Sakura like Kakashi could. ^_^ And I don't think I'd have it any other way!
Larkspurlark_spur on May 17th, 2007 03:50 am (UTC)
Draaama. Drama drama drama drama! And ANGST! Aside from Sakura running off to wed Itachi (can we choose an even more improbable pairing?!), there is no more dramatic affair than Hatake Kakashi and Haruno Sakura. Lolita complex + teacher/student = rivers upon rivers of angsty, delicious drama.

Haha, I love that. You're so right. Heck, it's what makes me try to write this pairing!!

Firstly, YAY FOR 'ANOTHER WOLF'! I love that story, I really do. :D It's probably the only Kakashi/Sakura I can read where Sakura is still a minor that doesn't just squick the holy hell outta me.

Thank you so much, it's nice of you to say that, But honestly, I felt like such a Nabokov knockoff writing it. The angst-- gotta love it.
Snortysupermoo on May 17th, 2007 02:21 am (UTC)
Ha, I'm conceited and don't read anyone else's comments. :O

I think you are thinking too literally about the problem, although I see your point about Kakashi not wanting to hurt anyone else, as well as his being ambiguous.

I, personally, tend towards the more epic-length fanfics, as they tend to address some of these issues. I don't really think that Kakashi, as he stands, would be interested in 12 year old, pre-Shippuden Sakura. I don't remember if "Another Wolf" had her a bit older, or not. I liked it, though. :P

I think that, to hold Kakashi's attention as a sexual being for any amount of time, she needs to be in her later teens (think 16 as a vague minimum). She needs to have hormones, and puberty, and be aware that Kakashi is not just a crush object, but a man with his own hormones and thoughts. After that, you have two avenues: you can construct the situation to force the characters to act in a certain way, or you can approach the epic-length fic, which gives the characters a chance to grow towards each other. Was that hard to follow? It was hard to write.

As a writer, you can force the characters into any situation you desire. Stressful situations involving being held captive together, or going through some kind of solidarity-building experience together (surviving massacres, having a similar yet major deformity, etc), will force an otherwise odd-out group of people together. That would create the closeness you need to convince Sakura to look at Kakashi. And Kakashi, in his own way, will gravitate towards Sakura out of a desire to help her. No, it won't be close, or lasting, or romantic, but it does get them together as a pairing. It's the cheap way out, but it holds a special place in my heart.

The more expensive approach is a lengthy fic in terms of both character development and length of time passed within the fic. Given time, as Sakura matures in the fic, she can mature into something that Kakashi can relate to and appreciate. Also given time, Kakashi can close one or two of his emotional wounds. And then (this is the juicy part), they can actually relate, as equals, and have a *real* relationship. Or as real as two anime characters can have.

Your story, Another Wolf, was interesting because it didn't follow either of those plot devices. It took Sakura, in her youthfulness and inexperience, and Kakashi, in his total-pervert mode, and threw them together. Kakashi's preferences are never revealed (are they?), and there's no reason to see why he wouldn't go for a super-young girl. The angst in the fic, and the pressure Sakura inadvertantly put on Kakashi made for an interesting dynamic. It would never have lasted, but it was a great exploration of Sakura's mental processes. I always wondered what Kakashi was thinking, even if it was "I shouldn't be doing this, oh crap oh crap oh crap."

Why am I on the KakaSaku comm on lj? Kakashi remains a mystery. He reveals so little about himself that any exploration of his mental processes, by anyone, is welcome. And Sakura, who spends her time mooning over Sasuke, deserves so much better than to play the swoony female. She's smart, she's certainly able to stand on her own post-Shippuden, and females don't have to be weak and emo-boy-obsessed.

I wonder if you're actually gonna read all these. Good luck with your search for answers! :D
Larkspurlark_spur on May 17th, 2007 03:57 am (UTC)

As a writer, you can force the characters into any situation you desire.


Yes, but my problem is that I want to know if KakaSaku can happen as the characters Mishimoto made, NOT the characters that writers mold them to become. This is silly because it's *fanfiction* we're talking about, but I can't for the life of me see the Kakashi we know in the manga fall in love with the Sakura we know in the manga. I can see him *want* her, maybe even need her, but not fall in love with her.

I can make Sakura to be 21 and everything else I want her to be, but then she's not Sakura to me anymore. She's a character that I made up.

Your story, Another Wolf, was interesting because it didn't follow either of those plot devices. It took Sakura, in her youthfulness and inexperience, and Kakashi, in his total-pervert mode, and threw them together. Kakashi's preferences are never revealed (are they?), and there's no reason to see why he wouldn't go for a super-young girl. The angst in the fic, and the pressure Sakura inadvertantly put on Kakashi made for an interesting dynamic. It would never have lasted, but it was a great exploration of Sakura's mental processes. I always wondered what Kakashi was thinking, even if it was "I shouldn't be doing this, oh crap oh crap oh crap."

That might have been the best feedback I've ever received for that story, so thank you so much. Kakashi's preferences were never really revealed, and you know why?? Because truthfully, *I* didn't completely know. I knew Sakura inside out when I was writing her, so I just wrote Kakashi the way I thought he would react to her: hesitant, restrained, maybe a bit of self-loathing. I think he really just wanted what she was offering (even if he hated himself for it). Some comfort, some intimacy.

Your comments were extremely helpful. Thank you!
(no subject) - willag on May 21st, 2007 01:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
astarvingwriter: Fanficastarvingwriter on May 17th, 2007 03:27 am (UTC)
Not a comment regarding KakaSaku specifically, but as a fan of rare pairings across several fandoms, I do have to say that I hate the word impossible. On the other hand, I'm all over the word implausible. With a talented writer and enough page space, anything is possible. Certain characters, social constraints, and timing can certainly make something implausible ( read: terribly damn difficult to write), but impossible? Nah.

As for the situation/social structure in this instance... well, I know pretty much nothing about Japanese culture. However, I am a fan of words, and I'd like to think that the Naruto Universe isn't entirely based on Japanese culture. There seem to be other bits thrown in there that make it a very different world. Additionally, whatever the sensei status may be in Japan, it is repeatedly emphasized after the time skip that Sakura and Naruto are to be considered equals to Kakashi. They even go so far as to say that Kakashi is no longer their teacher. To me, the strength of those words, both in the setting and the specific usage, speaks a different story than that of a society based entirely on Japanese culture. In the end, while Kakashi may be Sakura's commander now, he is not as limited as he was as her teacher.

And that's about all that I could possibly add to this discussion that wasn't already said. :-)
Larkspurlark_spur on May 17th, 2007 03:59 am (UTC)
I used the word 'impossible' to instigate >:D

Yes, I agree. Of course it's not impossible, just improbable, or as you said, implausible.

I think that I really just want to read something between these two and really believe it.
Tell It Like It Is: Kakashimandy138 on May 17th, 2007 04:39 am (UTC)
Which is why when I attempt to write this pairing, it is always *angst.* He would hate himself for touching her, or even thinking about touching her. It would kill him to do so. Actually, I like to think about Kakashi just losing it and taking it out on Sakura (who is half thrilled and half scared out of her wits). And then I like to think of him wanting to cut off his own hands for acting on his impulses. I don't think Kakashi would really ever want Sakura as anything more than an outlet for all of his bottled up emotions. And Sakura, having been unable to ever save Naruto or Sasuke, would let him use her for all she was worth, just to know that she was able to save *someone.*

I believe this to be true in part. That in a nutshell is half of their romantic relationship foundings in serious attempts in fanfiction. Not only that, but it plays so very truly with the core nature of both characters and I think it will always permeate their relationship, no matter how 'happy' things turn out to be. There is too much history between them, behind Kakashi.

Angst is definately the current basis for their relationship as it will be until Sasuke returns; and likely even after that to some degree. But so is hope. They're all trying to keep each other trying for the best possible outcome, keeping each other afloat until the whole Sasuke (and now Akatsuki) problem is resolved. Frankly, I'm not expecting Kakashi to make it out alive after all is said and done. He'll probably sacrifice himself to save those he cares about and as some self-perceived penance for always being the survivor. In canon, I don't see Kakashi with anyone; besides Sakura as she's turning out to be or Rin somehow returning. We still don't really know if she's alive or not. And even now Obito's death is being strongly debated.

I think Kakashi is capable of falling in love but I really do believe it will be against his will if he does, and it will take someone like Sakura to do it. Those who read the manga know Rin was terribly in love with him but he brushed her off. Rin did not stop or give up loving him, no, but she was timid about his coarse treatment to her feelings and cautious in her approach to him. Sakura is strong and such a fighter that she could take that treatment, stand up to it, face it head on, and knock it down. She doesn't give up, she studies until she finds the solution. It will take her unresisting nature to break down Kakashi's walls. And really, already, she's deeper into its cracks than either Naruto or Sasuke. Kakashi's tone of voice and choice of words is certainly more carefully considered when conversing with her as opposed to the boys.

Out of the entire team, it is really Sakura who he treats most as an equal and is closest to. (A nice example is when he's admitted to the hospital and meets Sai for the first time.) The boys he still speaks to as if instructing. While he openly acknowledges all their growths several times, he is most surprised by Naruto's acheivements while he expects greater and bigger things of Sasuke and keeps pushing him past new limits. But with Sakura - after she has proved herself to him through accomplishments in the Chuunin exams - he treats her with a new respect that wasn't there before; to give up one's pride in sacrifice to defend those important to her. She has passed an important trial, the one he preached to them in their very first test of teamwork. She is always the first to pick up on his line of thought concerning tactics and observances over the other two. While Sasuke understands the execution and the results, Sakura always gets the 'how' of the workings.

Tell It Like It Ismandy138 on May 17th, 2007 04:41 am (UTC)
About Kakashi, loyalty, and teamwork. Yes, loyal but not to a fault. It is so VERY important here - to Kakashi's character - that teammates are ABOVE duty and loyalty to village, given within reason. Background on Kakashi will reveal his acceptance and taking to heart of teamwork over missions/duty which I will exclude to avoid posting spoilers. But this means that Kakashi will sacrifice mission integrity to save his teammates, his friends and only family. This means more to him than personal failure or ruin. His number one loyalty is to his team, but he will not betray his village; and I think the underlaying reasoning behind this is if the village leadership remains just. If it were to become tainted and causing more harm than good, I think he would perform some form of betrayal for morality. Kakashi is a shinobi - a damned good one - but he is not a thoughtless tool and will not act like one.

But let me say this: KakaSaku writers/fans, speak for yourself about how 'believeable' you find them to be and not for the rest of the fandom. I find it completely possible with a number of certain outcomes without changing canon. Do not put words into the mouths of others. Respect the opinions of your fellow fans, please.

As for this being taboo... Yes, from some viewpoints it is. And as Japanese culture may have some kind of forebearance on such a relationship as teacher with student in THAT way, we must also take a step back and look at all the other 'taboos/impropers' broken thus far in the manga. A simple example would be the manner in which Anko dresses- though there are many more; it would be considered very disgraceful among other things in Japanese culture, yet look how it's disgarded for the sake of character depth. Such little things are not to be overlooked. They are often used throughout the anime and manga to take your mind off what is culturally accepted and not. We do not know what is considered wrong or right in the Narutoverse until we observe character reactions to events. Who's to say this [romantic relationship] isn't looked down upon by most in Kishimoto-san's manga world? And taking a step further back from that, we must admit we do not know what Kishimoto-san is planning or thinking. Furthermore, who are we to decide what will come to pass to make this either more likely or not fathomable? There is much in store and none can claim to know if it will drive Kakashi and Sakura closer or apart.

The reasons you cannot personally find this a plausible canonnically realistic pairing is for two reasons: you're not allowing yourself to and really, the fanfictions in which this pair is written believably for such thought to take root are nearly nonexistent. By expanding upon the possibility and upcoming character growth, many scenarios in which they could come to be together in such a way are being aborted before being birthed into life. This is unjust judgement and death to the situation before it can prove itself.

(no subject) - mandy138 on May 17th, 2007 04:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ane_s_thesia on May 17th, 2007 04:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - serenanna on May 17th, 2007 03:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Bloody Raindarkrequiemsong on May 18th, 2007 05:56 am (UTC)
^__^
Yup, that's true Kakashi would probably turn into a perverted senile old man if not for Sakura, and Sakura would probably be a snide little brat still if it weren't for Kakashi. They affect each other in a 'neutralized' sort of way I guess. And about the earlier post I'm sorry if it seemed like I might've gotten carried away...*sigh*...I'm just a butthead when it comes to KakaSaku details and I was already set off because of someone else being nit picky about one of my ealier posts, and won't let me live it down.
Jessiewater_faerie on May 18th, 2007 08:24 am (UTC)
Hopefully my comment is a little short also, not too scrambled and I loved your Another Wolf story by the way and I am not just saying that. You have a wonderful way of reading stories. Also... I horribly dislike NaruSasu, I just feel it wrecks their competitive brother dynamic.... I can see how it works... just not my thing. Haha.

For Kakashi and Sakura though

One: I feel that Sakura no matter how old she gets sees Kakashi as her teacher and also as a very sexual person in general or maybe just a pervert. So, I feel that for any questions or curiosity she has about sexual things, she would go to Kakashi. This I think is because she trusts him, I feel as through also her parents don't seem to be around at all, have we even seen Sakura's parents? Also, she doesn't really have any other males to go to for information like that. Like who else would she go to, so for me I think the attraction from Sakura's direction to Kakashi is curiosity and the unknown as she is ever the learner.

Two: I feel as though Kakashi and Sakura will never be canon, but that's the fun in it, what fun is writing fanfiction about a pairing that is canon? You can come up with your own ideas, reasons everything and no one can really say anything about it if it's well written as you're allowed developing the relationship in your own way and allowing the characters to be portrayed in your own way as well. The way you see them, from the outside. If it's canon, it's canon, you can't really change much about a relationship that is already there, it takes the chase out which I find is the best part.

Three: They look good together.

Four: I find Kakashi is a happy medium between Sasuke and Naruto. I feel as though he has that dark background but he's still cheerful. He can spit out a witty comment or be a goofy idiot. He's got A TON of different personality traits.

Sasuke is a little flat, bad emo boy with an attitude problem and a brother obsession.
Naruto is a loud mouthed idiot that seems to always be in the right place at the right time.

DEFINITELY not saying that they're completely flat like that but I just find that Kakashi has much more dimension to him. I like Naruto and Sasuke as characters. (Sasuke not so much now...... XD)

Anyways, that's all I gotta say now though
ever_after_time on May 22nd, 2007 10:52 pm (UTC)
Kakaxsakura Rant Hehe...
I don't know, I've always seen as Kakashi as hiding behind his 'untouchable persona' hard to touch and even harder to hold, he always seems so allusive to me. And I think that may have been what drew me to like Kakashi and Sakura together. Sakura always seems to be grasping for 'elusive things' like Sasuke's heart when she was younger.

Trying to hold onto what she wanted when she was twelve while going on 15-16. I like them together because it just sort of-

Makes a bit of sense. I would always see that kakashi would be slightly afraid of her(not her specifically but hurting her, touching her, trying to take care of her) I can't ever really see him saying "I love you" but I could see him caring for her a lot, and sakura, never really knowing true love and being slightly afraid and tired of trying it, would see Kakashi as the 'perfect person for her' he knows betrayal and hurt and if anything he would just be with her to protect her.

And sense Sakura wouldn't want to be protected but would secretly admit that it was flattering sometimes that he cared she would be upset about it and constantly try and get stronger.

And in seeing Sakura get stronger and stronger would push him to make sure she never got in over her head.

I see it as a love-hate relationship, were they both bring out each other's faults and annoy each other to no end sometime (mostly Kakashi annoying sakura) but would eventually rely on each other to much to do more than be comfortable with each other and stay together.

No matter how short or hurtful it was in the end, because while Kakashi would never want to hurt Sakura because he would want to protect her, he would, and while he did that Sakura would just become annoyed and tell him off or tell him how stupid he was being and eventually, grudgingly even he would stay.

Though imagine he would constantly be in doubt and while he might not care about what people think of him, he would care about what people thought about Sakura. Which in the end I could see pushing him away.

In the conclusion I guess, I would see a stubborn Sakura always being held back by Kakashi at an arm's length away, but he would stubbornly never let go of her hand even as he pushed her as far away from his reach as he could.

And no matter how much it hurt his self-control or ego or heart or whatever! I do not think (in Canon no matter what) he would ever be able to bring himself to get close to her like that just because he would know it could never work out, it would never really be truly fair to sakura.

HOWEVER: That doesn't mean I don't absolutely love this pairing and enjoy the HELL out of it, I absolutely love reading about it and if I ever wrote about it (which I have tried multiple times and have multiple stories started, they would probably, in some way or another, work out, mostly because even though I think they really wouldn't, I'd love to see a fling or the angst of it played out.

(What a wonderful rant, thanks so much! XD I feel better know thanks! GO GO KAKASAKU!!!! HELLS YEAH!!!




mercury589mercury589 on May 28th, 2007 09:23 am (UTC)
Hmm... I got into the pairing because of a fanfic. Up until then I mostly just kinda stuck her with Naruto, but there is Hinata. I really don't like Sasuke. I liked Sakura mostly because of the almost comedic spasms of inner Sakura. There is no doubting the awesomeness of Kakashi. I typically don't overanalyze my favorite pairs. If this was real life and she was underage I'd say kill him, otherwise I don't really care. My best friend's father was ten years older then her mother (though he acted a lot younger sometimes). I think some could be said for the similarities between Team 7 and Kakashi's group as a kid. I can't say why really, but I like them. I also can't say whether or not I would like it if it happen in the manga, but it would be way too weird if she was still so young. Here's someone whose has a different take on what the writers of the anime are planning. It's just funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vKqtinXLA
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